Chapter 7 and 13 Bankruptcy Blog

The following questions were submitted by bankruptcy attorneys during the past week. The answers are provided by Victoria Ring who is not an attorney.  Therefore, the information provided in this material is for training purposes only and no whole or part should be conceived as legal advice.

DEAR VICTORIA

I am a new attorney doing my first bankruptcy petition where I am proposing a cram down.  The appraised value of my clients home is $185,000.  They owe $170,000 on the first mortgage and $45,000 on the second.  How can I do a cram down?

ANSWER

You cannot do a cram down.  A cram down is when the house is worth LESS than the amount that is owed.  The amount that is owed is crammed down to the appraised value.  In your clients case, the opposite is true.

Perhaps it will help you to understand the concept better if you think of it this way:

If the house had to be sold and it sold for $185,000; there would be plenty enough money to pay off the first mortgage of $170,000. In fact, you would have $15,000 left over after the sale and the pay off.  Therefore, a cram down is impossible to do since there is nothing to cram down.

However, on the second mortgage, you may be able to propose a reduction since there is only $15,000 left.  Instead of the client paying $45,000, they may only need to pay $15,000 on the second mortgage.  The remaining $30,000 from the second mortgage is actually unsecured equity.

But let us not forget the exemption allowance provided for by your state.  If the exemption allowance is $50,000 the figures change for both mortgage companies.  Therefore, I would need to review Schedule A of your clients petition in order to determine the different strategies available in this particular case.

DEAR VICTORIA

How can I find the IRS Guidelines so I can accurately calculate Schedule J of the bankruptcy petition?

ANSWER

The main page of links I put together to help you when preparing bankruptcy petitions is at: http://www.bankruptcylinks.info/about/prepare-petitions

The links to the IRS guidelines are at: http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/meanstesting.htm http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=104627,00.html http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=104696,00.html http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20061001/bci_data/median_income_table.htm http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=104623,00.html

Keep in mind that the government wants you to think outside the box.  Many of the guidelines are lumped into categories that are not consistent with Schedule J.

The only purpose in reviewing the IRS guidelines and comparing them to the Schedule J figures the clients provide is to make sure the figures are accurate.  For example, gasoline prices fluctuate from week to week.  If the clients tell you they spend $200 a month on gas this month and the IRS guidelines allow them $800; it is an indication that the client may have provided you with a wrong figure and you should ask them to provide a more accurate one.

Why is this important? Because if you give your clients a Chapter 13 Plan payment they cannot afford, they will be unable to stay in the Chapter 13.  This escalates costs as well as other problems for attorneys, clients and the bankruptcy court.

However, this is not a skill that you learn preparing one bankruptcy petition.  This is why I incorporate the training of this skill when I train attorneys.  Believe me, I did not learn the skill overnight myself.

DEAR VICTORIA

The liquidation analysis says that the unsecured debts get nothing but I am not sure how to adjust for that since the plan wants to automatically pay them. Do I use: not in plan, for each to stop the computation?

ANSWER

Unsecured debts should NEVER be removed from a Chapter 13 Plan.  That is one of the main purposes of filing a Chapter 13 in the first place.  The solution is not to trick the software into not calculating unsecured debts.  The solution is to fix what you did wrong and make sure that the unsecured creditors are paid a minimum percentage.  The minimum percentage varies from state to state.  In California, attorneys can have as low as a 2% Plan but in Ohio they never allowed any Plan less than 10%.  As an attorney, you need to call the Chapter 13 Trustee’s office or consult with an experienced attorney in your area to find out the minimum Plan percentage accepted in your state.

DEAR VICTORIA

When you switch from a Chapter 7 to a 13, why does the dialog box come up in the software asking if you want to change your answer on funds available to the unsecured creditors? Are you supposed to have funds in a 13 and not for a 7?

ANSWER

I assume you are referring to the Voluntary Petition.  There are two checkboxes on this form with the following two choices:

Box 1: YES.  Debtor estimates that funds will be available for distribution to unsecured creditors. Box 2: NO. Debtor estimates that, after any exempt property is executed and administrative expenses paid, there will be no funds available to unsecured creditors.

Yes, your assumption is correct.  If there are no funds available to pay unsecured creditors, the debtor is filing a Chapter 7.  One of the requirements to file a Chapter 13 is that there is money left over to pay unsecured creditors.  Besides, if there is no money left over, how could the debtor be filing a Chapter 13 anyway?  They would have no Plan payment to make if they have no money left.  This is a Chapter 7.

DEAR VICTORIA

Where, if anywhere, are there widely accepted interest rates for the secured debt published?  Is this an area where there are lots of disputes?

ANSWER

I called an attorney in California to get a good answer for this question.  The attorney told me this: The interest rate currently paid by the debtor should be used on secure debts unless it is excessive.  To have figures to compare she suggested you find out the average percentage people with good credit pay to purchase a new home (or other asset) in your area.  Suppose you find out this percentage is 2% but the clients are paying 27%.  This is excessive; and in bankruptcy, you may consider proposing the 2% instead of 27% and hopefully there will be no objection from the mortgage company.

DEAR VICTORIA

With all the information you know about bankruptcy and law firm operations, do you plan to publish a book?

ANSWER Yes.  Two attorneys in Georgia (J. Jeffrey Williams and Patricia Lyda Williams) and myself are putting together the materials now.  The name of the book will be: What They Did Not Teach You in Law School About Chapter 7 and Chapter 13 Bankruptcy.  We hope the book will be ready for sale within 90 days.

DEAR VICTORIA

I am a California attorney. If I attend your web training seminar how many MCLE credits do I receive?

ANSWER

The MCLE credits permitted by the State of California are only for seminars that you physically attend. MCLE credits are not provided for the web training seminars I develop and offer to help your law firm.  Besides, the purpose of the web training seminars Michael and I provide is to teach you skills that will improve your bottom line and help you to have a well run and organized law firm.  If we have to force attorneys to attend our seminars through the lure of giving them credits, I really do not think those attorneys would appreciate the training they receive.

IN THE MEANTIME

If you are a new bankruptcy attorney, spend 1 hour with me online and I guarantee I can help solve many problems with your petitions that you are encountering. The cost is only $100 for a full hour and we meet via a web meeting. This means that you will login to the internet and be able to view my computer screen.  This way, I can provide you with visual training, which has more impact than talking solely on the telephone.

Call 719-465-2442 or email victoriaring@coloradobankruptcytraining.com to schedule your training.

ATTEND THE CRAM DOWN WEB SEMINAR

Check us out for only a $25.00 investment. Attend the June 5, 2010 Bankruptcy Cram Down Web Training Seminar.  Sign up at: http://www.coloradobankruptcytraining.com/newsite/contact-us/bankruptcy-web-training

If you have any questions you would like answered in this forum, send them by email to victoriaring@coloradobankruptcytraining.com Your name or contact information will never be used unless you specifically request it.  And if I do not know the answer, I will ask an attorney and get an answer for you.

Have a wonderful week.

A quick lesson in the Means Test, Schedule J and the Chapter 13 Plan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoldzGDhV3I

I was talking with an attorney this morning and I asked him why he thought only 1 person has signed up to attend our upcoming Los Angeles bankruptcy training seminars for attorneys.

Attorney Joseph said that attorneys are bombarded with so much information about training seminars that they may not be aware our seminars are different.  Here is the link to the complete seminar outline: http://www.bankruptcyattorneyseminars.com/outline.html

Therefore, Michael Misenheimer and I are going to use the June seminars, scheduled to be held in Los Angeles, as a test.  It is a financial loss for us to invest the money into airfare, hotel and other overhead expenses if only 1 or 2 people attend the seminar.  Therefore, if we do not have a minimum of 10 people signed up to attend by June 4, we will refund the money of the 2 people who have registered and try another approach.

Perhaps it would be better to offer an online training school for attorneys.  They can login at any time of the day and receive training in Chapter 7s and Chapter 13s.  If this would be the best approach for training, I would love to develop the online school.  However, in the past, attorneys preferred us to train using onsite seminars and this is what I have been doing for the past 5 years.

TRAINING OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO YOU

OPTION 1

If you would prefer to be trained Chapter 7s and 13s in a seminar setting, please register before June 4.  There is no credit card payment required to register.  But I will need a minimum of 10 registered attendees before June 4 or we will cancel the seminar.

Direct link to Registration Form: http://www.bankruptcyattorneyseminars.com/bankruptcy_seminar_order_form.pdf

OPTION 2

Would you prefer onsite training at your office instead of attending a seminar?  Michael Misenheimer and I would be willing to come to your office and train you and your staff onsite while we are in the Los Angeles area.  Please call 719-465-2442 so we can find out the exact level of training you need.

OPTION 3

If you would prefer to obtain training in Chapter 7s and 13s through an online training school or training CDs, send an email to victoriaring1958@gmail.com

The goals of Michael and me are to provide attorneys with the training they need in the format that best suits their law firm operations.  Please do not hesitate to provide us with suggestions on how we can provide that to your law firm.  We are flexible because we are a small company.  We provide old-fashioned customer service to the attorneys we work with and we look forward to working with your law firm soon.

CONTACTS:

Victoria Ring – 719-465-2442 victoriaring1958@gmail.com http://www.coloradobankruptcytraining.com

Michael Misenheimer – 404-795-9013 mmisenheimer@gmail.com http://www.bankruptcy-paralegal.com

a lesson in client intake interviews and conflicting information

For the three weeks I have been working on one particular bankruptcy case.  Why is it taking so long?  The clients have been very difficult to interview and the husband and wife keep providing conflicting information.  Therefore, I decided to write this article to help you when you face the same problems, if you have not encountered them already.

The petition began like any other normal petition.  I entered the initial data into the bankruptcy software and compiled a list of questions to ask the clients.  When I called the client back I discovered the phone number the attorney provided was her work phone, so I apologized for the interruption and set up an appointment to talk with her after hours when she was at home.

The first problem I encountered was the inability to understand the clients due to their heavy Pilipino accent.  However, I did my best to get the answers to some of the questions.  For other questions, the wife handed the phone to her husband and I tried to communicate with him the best I could.  However, the husband could not understand who I was and was very reluctant to talk with me.  I had no choice at this time but to end the interview, let the attorney know my dilemma and ask him how he wanted me to proceed.

It took approximately 2 weeks before the attorney had the opportunity to talk with the clients and inform them of my role.  I was instructed by the attorney to call the clients and finish the interview.  Hint:  If you are an attorney, you should always let your clients know the names of people who may call them to obtain information.  This way you save a lot of time for your office and staff as well as confusion for your client.

Finally, after leaving voice mails for the clients and eventually getting in touch with them for a second interview, I was able to conduct 80% of the interview in about 2 hours time.  The reason I was unable to complete the interview is detailed in my notes to the attorney which are provided below.  However, the debtor(s) did nothing but hurt themselves by refusing to provide me with the crucial information I needed.  Now the attorney has to spend time getting it before we file the petition.  So eventually, they will have to answer the questions whether they want to or not.

When you encounter situations like this, it does not always mean that the debtor(s) are committing fraud or trying to be fraudulent in their answers.  Instead, some clients are reluctatant to answer questions because they are afraid it could get them in trouble, so they ask you or me to answer the questions for them.

For example: in one part of my conversation with the debtor, I asked him how much his family spent per month in food.  He said they spent $6,000.  You and I both know that this amount is too extreme and overinflated.  The IRS allowance for this family of 4 is only $1,370, so I immediately knew that this would not pass through the bankruptcy court without problems.  I told the debtor that $6,000 was much higher than the IRS allowance and that I needed a more realistic figure.  The debtor told me to make up any number that I needed to.  I told him that if I did, I would be committing unauthorized practice of law.  The debtor needed to provide me with a figure and that figure could not be $6,000.

But instead of trying to be sensible, the debtor became upset and started playing mind games.  He told me to try $5,000; but I told him this was too high.  Next he told me to try $4,500.  This immediately told me he was playing games and had no intention of providing me with an accurate figure to reflect his own household budget.  It was at this point that I stopped playing the game and told the debtor that he could discuss the matter with his attorney.

Remember: As a non-attorney, you should do everything you can (within your scope of power) to obtain the information you need to compile a well-detailed bankruptcy petition.  If the client refuses to provide that information or cooperate with you, do the best you can to get as much information as you can, then document details of the interview (as I have done below) and turn the matter over to your attorney. Ask your attorney how they want you to move forward and wait on their instruction.

MY NOTES TO THE ATTORNEY REGARDING THIS CASE provided for training purposes only

STUDENT LOAN ISSUES

From what I can understand, the clients have 2 sons with 2 separate student loans.  The first son (who is 21) has a student loan with Great Lakes for which the debtor co-signed.  This means that the debtor may need to start paying $300 per month for this student loan debt beginning in June 2010.

However, debtor claims that these are his student loans; however, he acknowledges that he did NOT attend school.  Because debtor did not attend school, the student loans must be in the name of the son who did attend.  I am sure that Great Lakes had to place the student loan in the name of the student, not the parent.  Yet, debtor says that I am totally wrong and became very upset.

Bottom line: We do not care if debtor wants to pay the student loan for his son who is able to work and pay his own debt; my ONLY concern is if the Chapter 7 bankruptcy will be over in order time to allow for this $300 monthly payment.  By allowing for this $300 monthly payment, Debtor’s income could be reduced on Schedule I; but the expense may not even be allowed by the court since the debt does not belong to debtor.  This is the part the debtor is not able to understand.  I do not believe the loan is solely in his name and that his son is the only one responsible for it; but if I am wrong, please let me know.

Since debtor is unable to clarify this information and provide me with a suitable explanation, I have NOT listed these loans since they are currently NOT due and at this point, are not in default and not the responsibility of the debtor(s).

DEPENDENT ALLOWANCE

The debtor(s) currently have both sons living with them.  One son is 21 and the wife said he has a job; however, the husband said he is still looking for a job.  The problem is, the 21 year old is NOT in school and therefore may not qualify as a dependent on the bankruptcy petition regardless of whether he is working or not.

However, the second son, who is 20 years old, is still in college and will not be graduating until 2012. Again, the student loan would not even be due until this date, yet debtor said he wants to plan ahead and include the amount in his bankruptcy.  In fact, he got angry because I told him the court may not allow for this student loan repayment and therefore I was not placing it on Schedule J unless the attorney advised me otherwise.  I tried over and over again to explain to the client that we were only concerned with TODAY not tomorrow; yet, he became more agitated and upset with me.

Therefore, I listed both sons on Schedule I but the attorney may receive objection from the trustee.  Hopefully the trustee will allow the son who is still going to college as a dependent but it cannot be guaranteed.  The clients both need to get their stories straight before they go to court.  You may want to counsel them only to say YES and NO and not to start telling stories since their stories are always conflicting.

GE MONEY BANK DEBT

The debtor(s) listed on their client intake forms that they had a debt owed to GE Money Bank in the amount of $6,194.47 but it was a credit card.  Since the account number they provided was not a credit card number, I talked with them about it.

I discovered that the debt was SECURE because they purchased 4 television sets.  However, the debtor was unable to describe the TVs to me.  I cannot believe that 4 televisions are worth over $6,000 unless they are of a better quality than the $800 the debtor claims.  First he told me the televisions were very OLD (but would not tell me how old).  Next he told me he owed GE Money Bank $3,000 but added some more stuff in January (less than 90 days ago) that brought the total to $6,000.  When I asked him what items he had previously purchased for the original $3,000 debt, he said it was for the television sets.  When I asked him what he purchased in January, he again said it was the television sets.

This conversation continued like this for almost 15 minutes and I tried every way to try and help the debtor understand that I needed a complete inventory of the GE Money Bank debt but he kept giving me conflicting information.

My thoughts: Since this debt is such a touchy subject, debtor may have purchased these items less than 90 days ago because he knew he was filing bankruptcy.  As you know, any debt made within the past 90 days could be subject to non-discharge and the clients may have to pay this debt or give up the televisions.

Please find out:

1.   A complete inventory of everything included in the $6,194.47 debt 2.   A complete inventory of any purchases made to GE Money Bank within the past 90 days, which includes January. 3.   A complete description (brand name and size of screen) for each television set 4.   The monthly payment made to GE Money Bank 5.   Are they behind in payments?  If so, which months? 6.   Do they plan to catch up the back payments or surrender the televisions?

THE RECENT FINE FOR SPEEDING TICKET

In general conversation debtor mentioned that he has a court appearance set for March 23 to appear for a speeding ticket.  When I tried to find out about the ticket the debtor refused to go into detail. The only information I could pull from him was the court date and the amount of the fine, which is $332.  I did a search online through PACER as well as the Los Angeles Traffic Court but I could not locate any records on this traffic violation.

Debtor stated that he already paid the fine but still he needed to appear in court.  I suggest you check this out.  If the $332 was the entire fine paid in full, it needs noted on the bankruptcy petition. If the $332 is only a partial payment, I need to know that also.  Additionally, I need to know the:

1.   Case number 2.   Case caption 3.   Parties in the case 4.   Date of ticket 5.   Name and address of the court handling this matter

ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS

Debtor could not tell me if he was behind in payments on the 2002 BMW.  If he is behind, he will need to catch up those payments before the 341 Meeting or a potential objection could be challenged by the creditor since this case will more than likely be a Chapter 7.  In the petition we have asked the creditor to accept a LOWER monthly payment as well as a CRAM DOWN.  The original amount owed was $14,474 on the 2002 BMW but the Nada Guides has a market value of $6,025.  We are saving the debtor(s) $8,449.00 but if they do not show a good faith effort to catch up any past due balances, the deal could be lost and receive an objection from the creditor.

If they are only 1 month behind in payments, this may not be an issue; however, debtor was unable to provide me with this information and became upset when I asked him the question several times so I gave up.

SUMMARY

I hope my notes help you when you work on future petitions.

Due to the rapid growth of the debtor bankruptcy industry, it has become necessary to separate 713Training and 713Attorney.

From 2004 to 2010 these companies served two separate markets. 713Training provides training and support for virtual bankruptcy assistants and 713Attorney provides training and support for the debtor bankruptcy attorneys.  For the past several years, Victoria Ring has been able to manage both of them with occasional support from virtual assistants she hired to answer phones and fill orders.  But at the alarming rate the bankruptcy industry is growing, a point occurred where the companies had to be separated or both of them would suffer.

Therefore, on February 1, 2010; Clay Holland of MyBankruptcyAssistant.Com will take over the management of 713Training.  Victoria Ring will then have the ability to direct her attention solely to the training and support of debtor bankruptcy attorneys and their law firms through 713Attorney.

HOW TO STAY CONNECTED TO VICTORIA RING

1.  Visit http://www.linkedin.com/in/coloradovictoria 2.  Click:  ADD VICTORIA TO YOUR NETWORK 3.  If you are not already logged into LinkedIn you will be asked to login 4.  When prompted to type in an email address, use:  victoriaring@lawyer.com 5.  Send the email invitation

If you are already subscribed to the 713Training LinkedIn list, by all means, DO NOT UNSUBSCRIBE.  Clay Holland works as a virtual bankruptcy assistant, who is also assisting an attorney in building his law practice; therefore, Clay has a great deal of knowledge to share with the group that will be beneficial to you.

I apologize for any inconvenience this change may cause but this is the procedure that LinkedIn has in place to prevent you from being subscribed to a network for an individual you are not interested in following.

Additional changes are being made to compensate for the rapid growth of 713Training and 713Attorney.  Make sure you stay connected for updated details.

Victoria Ring, CEO http://www.713Training.Com http://www.713Attorney.Com