Chapter 7 and 13 Bankruptcy Blog

Due to the rapid growth of the debtor bankruptcy industry, it has become necessary to separate 713Training and 713Attorney.

From 2004 to 2010 these companies served two separate markets. 713Training provides training and support for virtual bankruptcy assistants and 713Attorney provides training and support for the debtor bankruptcy attorneys.  For the past several years, Victoria Ring has been able to manage both of them with occasional support from virtual assistants she hired to answer phones and fill orders.  But at the alarming rate the bankruptcy industry is growing, a point occurred where the companies had to be separated or both of them would suffer.

Therefore, on February 1, 2010; Clay Holland of MyBankruptcyAssistant.Com will take over the management of 713Training.  Victoria Ring will then have the ability to direct her attention solely to the training and support of debtor bankruptcy attorneys and their law firms through 713Attorney.

HOW TO STAY CONNECTED TO VICTORIA RING

1.  Visit http://www.linkedin.com/in/coloradovictoria 2.  Click:  ADD VICTORIA TO YOUR NETWORK 3.  If you are not already logged into LinkedIn you will be asked to login 4.  When prompted to type in an email address, use:  victoriaring@lawyer.com 5.  Send the email invitation

If you are already subscribed to the 713Training LinkedIn list, by all means, DO NOT UNSUBSCRIBE.  Clay Holland works as a virtual bankruptcy assistant, who is also assisting an attorney in building his law practice; therefore, Clay has a great deal of knowledge to share with the group that will be beneficial to you.

I apologize for any inconvenience this change may cause but this is the procedure that LinkedIn has in place to prevent you from being subscribed to a network for an individual you are not interested in following.

Additional changes are being made to compensate for the rapid growth of 713Training and 713Attorney.  Make sure you stay connected for updated details.

Victoria Ring, CEO http://www.713Training.Com http://www.713Attorney.Com

** This article will help you to understand important basic information if you are an attorney just getting started or transitioning to the field of debtor bankruptcy law.

An attorney called me today.  She was in a hurry and wanted to know what software she needed that would prepare a bankruptcy petition in about an hour.  I told her that none existed.  She then proceeded to tell me about an attorney who had a software program that imported credit reports, filled in all the creditor addresses and did everything, including filing her petition at the press of a button.  I explained to her that almost all bankruptcy software programs perform these same functions; but there is no bankruptcy software program that is going to practice law for her.  She was disgusted at my response but it is the same response I get from new attorneys quite often.

Remember the old saying: What looks too good to be true, probably is?  All adults should know by now that anything that appears to be simple and easy actually requires a skill.  I wrote an article one time about how horrible I was at trying to bag my own groceries at the store.  I explained that even something that sounds like it could be simple (like bagging groceries) still takes a skill that is only learned by practice.

Therefore, every person reading this article needs to reprogram their brain to understand that no bankruptcy software program is going to THINK for you.  Software programs only make some jobs easier.  You still need to go in and check data, categorize it, determine priorities and much more.  No software program is going to do that no matter how much you pay for it.

HOW DID THIS RUMOR GET STARTED?  LETS EXAMINE A REAL LIFE SITUATION:

John Q Public is sitting at home watching television.  He hears the rumor (started by the new media) that he can save his home if he files a Chapter 13 bankruptcy.  John Q Public is 9 months behind on his mortgage and facing a foreclosure because he lost his job.  Mr. Public rushes to the phone to call Ms. Attorney and tell her he wants to file a Chapter 13.

Note: For those of you who work within the bankruptcy system, you already know this statement by the media is only partially true.  The media conveniently leaves out the fact that a person cannot qualify to file a Chapter 13 if they are unemployed and have no money left after paying their basic living expenses.  That is the catch; however, John Q Public does not know that.

Ms. Attorney, who, through a lack of training, offers to file a Chapter 13 for John Q, Public.  Ms. Attorney uses her bankruptcy software program to prepare the bankruptcy petition.  Ms. Attorney has little or no training in preparing the petition and she spends from 6 to 8 hours just correcting and adjusting information (that the software cannot do).  She was unaware of this when she purchased the software because she was under the assumption that it did everything for her.

Next, Ms. Attorney is overwhelmed by the fact that she has also not been properly trained in how to gather all the necessary information for preparing petitions, properly counseling her clients and how to filter out clients who do not qualify for bankruptcy and help them through debt counseling or some other form of assistance.  Without this basic knowledge, new bankruptcy attorneys are going to be in for a very rocky road ahead; especially since there is no software program that is going to do all of this for them.

What happens next is another nightmare.  After Ms. Attorney enters in all the income for John Q Public and his wife, John Q Public does not qualify for a Chapter 13.  In a situation like this some attorneys will try to still push the bankruptcy through by finding an income from another source or suggest the debtor get a part-time job so he or his wife can qualify to file a Chapter 13.

Or, if Ms. Attorney manages to get the bankruptcy petition filed by some other method, she will still risk extreme embarrassment at the 341 Meeting when she is in front of the client, creditors and the Trustee.  When the Trustee finds these issues and brings them to the table, many attorneys will simply stop accepting Chapter 13s or stop doing bankruptcy altogether rather than face this situation again.  This is sad; because the result was only caused from a lack of training and knowledge in building her practice.  Another old saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

LOGICAL POINTS TO CONSIDER

If you are a seasoned bankruptcy attorney, I urge you to pass this information on to new attorneys.  In doing so, you and I are helping to improve professionalism and positive growth within the bankruptcy field.  If you are a new attorney, I urge you to study the following logical points:

1.   If a bankruptcy software program existed that could do all the thinking for you, why would someone need to hire a bankruptcy attorney?  Why not just buy the software and call it a day?

2.   If the bankruptcy court allows an attorney to charge $1,000 or more for a Chapter 13, do you not think there must be more work involved?  Some attorneys think the software does the work for them; but remember that the court does not just grant a large sum like this to an attorney without good reason.

3.   If you were going to open a pizza shop, would it be a good idea to learn how to make pizza first?  If you are going to start a new bankruptcy practice, would it be a good idea then to learn about the process first?  The least a new attorney can do is login to the American Bankruptcy Institute and view the free training videos at:

http://www.uscourts.gov/video/bankruptcybasics/bankruptcyBasics.cfm

Although these videos were made for attorneys to place on their websites to inform their clients about bankruptcy, they are still excellent in helping new attorneys understand the basics.  I always tell my students to study the law from a legal perspective as well s the consumer perspective.  It provides you with a better balance of knowledge that will carry throughout the life of your law career.

ONE SOLUTION TO CONSIDER

The videos from the American Bankruptcy Institute will NOT show you how to gather information from your clients, prepare the petition or run your practice.  That education has never been taught to attorneys and either they learn the skill through trial and error or from an experienced paralegal.

As the author of this article, I would be more than happy to talk with any attorney who is considering getting involved in the bankruptcy field. You can email me at: victoriaring1958@gmail.com

I hope this information helps you.

The problem: There is not enough left over for the debtors to make a Chapter 13 Plan payment.

I talked with an attorney today who said:  For a Chapter 13 Plan, I thought all I needed to do was take the amount left over between Schedules I and J and this was the Plan payment.

Unfortunately, in 90% of the cases, it is not that simple.  For example: Today I had a married couple who owed three mortgages on their home.  Here are the particulars:

$420,000 – Current market value of home

$320,000 – First mortgage $  20,000 – Second mortgage $200,000 – Third mortgage $  20,725 – Exemption allowance

Adding up $320 + $20 + $200 we have a total of $540.  The home is valued at $420, leaving the debtors with $120 in equity.  Minus out the exemption allowance and the debtors are UNDERWATER by  approximately $100.  This means that the attorney could propose a cram down on the THIRD mortgage and save the debtors $100,000.

This is a good thing, right?  Wrong.  Even with the cram down, the debtors only have $2,300 left over every month to make a Chapter 13 Plan payment.  After plugging in the figures into the Chapter 13 Plan, it would take a MINIMUM of $3,000 in a monthly payment just to cover the mortgage obligation, and still then, the unsecure creditors would only be paid 9 percent  (which could be a problem.)

BAD SOLUTION:

Some attorneys, when faced with a problem like this will reduce the expenses on Schedule J just to get the case filed.  But these are the types of things that will drive a Trustee insane.  Also, these are the types of things that can embarrass an attorney in court in front of their clients because they have not done their job properly.  They took the easy way out and left the Trustee to figure it out.

GOOD SOLUTION:

The best approach to solving this dilemma is for the attorney to meet with the debtors and explain the situation.  The attorney should start by giving the debtors a copy of Schedule J and ask them to look over the figures and let them know if everything looks okay.   After the debtors approve the figures (or change them) the attorney can explain the problem to the debtors in terms they will be better able to understand.

The attorney may say something like:  Since the figures are correct on Schedule J, you can see that you have $2,300 left over per month.  However, since your house payment is almost $2,000 that leaves you with only $300 to pay on your cars and the $250,000 in credit card debt.  As you can see, there is not enough money to do that.  Can you look over Schedule I and J and let me know if you can find an extra $700 so that I can make the Chapter 13 Plan work?

This puts control in the debtors hands and allows them to feel they are taking an active role.  If debtors understand issues, they will be more cooperative in staying in the Chapter 13 Plan.  However, if the debtors are unable to come up with a solution, at least they will be able to understand the problem and the attorney can explain different options.

WHAT IS THE BEST SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM?

If the debtors are unable to afford their home or do not anticipate increasing their income, the best solution would be to surrender the home.  This would give the debtors a fresh start and since there are only two of them, they could downsize and still leave a comfortable lifestyle.

However, people are attached to their THINGS, like homes and cars.  In fact, they are so emotionally attached that they cannot stand for a day to pass unless they have that particular home or particular car in their possession.  I personally do not understand it.  Everything in life comes and goes.  Everyone has a time when they have money and a time when they do not.  During the times when I have less money, I spend less and adjust my spending habits.  When I have money again, I celebrate and spend more.

Unfortunately, many people today are not willing to make sacrifices, but I hope this article at least puts the problem into a more understandable perspective.

Dear Victoria Ring:

Thanks for all you do.  And I appreciate the information you provide to us.  I just wanted to add that I currently work for a major bank.  I work with borrowers with defaulted business loans.  And let me tell you that on a lot of the deals we have, I have seen quite a few attorneys propose cram downs.  And a lot of our mortgages have been stripped off because there is no equity in the home.

One of the things we talk about all of the time is why many other attorneys are not doing this.  It is a great tool for the consumer.  No additional litigation is involved.  Once an attorney files the motion during the proceeding, it is up to the trustee.  We do not file responses to these requests.  Especially if there is no equity in the home.  And banks and mortgage lenders know that the bankruptcy court favors the debtor.  We have never been successful in blocking these.  You have to remember the cost that the banks incur in pursuing foreclosure or trying to liquidate the collateral.  We weigh the costs.  Banks make no money on homes they have to take back.  You may find that you will get more with negotiating with the lender too.  The attorney for the debtor is in a greater position than attorneys for the banks.

We knew that most of the mortgages we took at loan inception were abundance of caution.  And unfortunately, many people are filing for bankruptcy and having their debts discharged.  But if they do not do anything to release the liens on their home, then they still end up paying when there is equity in the future or if they want to sell their home.  As long as the lien stays on the home, you are basically giving the banks a long term investment.

I can tell you that many of our borrowers who filed for bankruptcy and were discharged are stunned when they see our lien is still on their home.  And the only way we will release it is if they give us all of the available equity in their house.  I just had a deal where the borrowers had filed for bankruptcy several years ago.  Unfortunately, the attorney did not contest our lien or ask that it be removed.  If the attorney had done this or at least proposed a settlement, we would not be in the great position we are now.  As opposed to getting $25,000 several years ago, we are now looking at almost $80,000.  The owners are senior citizens.  If they ever decide to sell their home, they will have to deal with the fact that we will be getting the bulk of the proceeds.  I believe they assumed when they reaffirmed the first mortgage, that ours was released.  And that was not the case.

From what we have seen, many trustees and bankruptcy judges side with the debtor in these cases.  We do everything we can by filing a proof of claim.  But at the end of the day, if there is no equity available at the time of filing (or equity of sizable value), we anticipate having our mortgage stripped and being put in the category of unsecured creditor.  That is why I am happy to see you offering this training to VBAs and attorneys.  Proposing this makes you a much added value to your clients.    So, for all of the attorneys who fear the drawn out litigation with mortgage lenders and banks, there is no need to worry.  You have to remember that banks have to pay outside attorneys.  And I can tell you that we just as soon not have to pay attorney fees fighting for properties that have little value.  I would tell them to do what is best for the consumer.  They are hiring you for your help.  So I implore them to pursue every avenue possible.

Crystal Brooks Email:  clbrooks67@comcast.net

THE ONLY TRAINING PRODUCTS AVAILABLE ONLINE ABOUT THIS TOPIC:

COMPLETE KIT – $89.99

Chapter 13 Training in Mortgage Cram Downs and Strip Downs http://www.713training.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=112

This kit provides you with a VIDEO, AUDIO and all the legal templates you need to propose a cram down or strip down in a Chapter 13 Plan.

LEGAL TEMPLATES ONLY – $39.99

If you prefer to purchase the templates without the training video or audio, visit: http://www.713training.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=114

** This article will help you to understand important basic information if you are an attorney just getting started or transitioning to the field of debtor bankruptcy law.

An attorney called me today.  She was in a hurry and wanted to know what software she needed that would prepare a bankruptcy petition in about an hour.  I told her that none existed.  She then proceeded to tell me about an attorney who had a software program that imported credit reports, filled in all the creditor addresses and did everything, including filing her petition at the press of a button.  I explained to her that almost all bankruptcy software programs perform these same functions; but there is no bankruptcy software program that is going to practice law for her.  She was disgusted at my response but it is the same response I get from new attorneys quite often.

Remember the old saying: What looks too good to be true, probably is?  All adults should know by now that anything that appears to be simple and easy actually requires a skill.  I wrote an article one time about how horrible I was at trying to bag my own groceries at the store.  I explained that even something that sounds like it could be simple (like bagging groceries) still takes a skill that is only learned by practice.

Therefore, every person reading this article needs to reprogram their brain to understand that no bankruptcy software program is going to THINK for you.  Software programs only make some jobs easier.  You still need to go in and check data, categorize it, determine priorities and much more.  No software program is going to do that no matter how much you pay for it.

HOW DID THIS RUMOR GET STARTED?  LETS EXAMINE A REAL LIFE SITUATION:

John Q Public is sitting at home watching television.  He hears the rumor (started by the new media) that he can save his home if he files a Chapter 13 bankruptcy.  John Q Public is 9 months behind on his mortgage and facing a foreclosure because he lost his job.  Mr. Public rushes to the phone to call Ms. Attorney and tell her he wants to file a Chapter 13.

Note: For those of you who work within the bankruptcy system, you already know this statement by the media is only partially true.  The media conveniently leaves out the fact that a person cannot qualify to file a Chapter 13 if they are unemployed and have no money left after paying their basic living expenses.  That is the catch; however, John Q Public does not know that.

Ms. Attorney, who, through a lack of training, offers to file a Chapter 13 for John Q, Public.  Ms. Attorney uses her bankruptcy software program to prepare the bankruptcy petition.  Ms. Attorney has little or no training in preparing the petition and she spends from 6 to 8 hours just correcting and adjusting information (that the software cannot do).  She was unaware of this when she purchased the software because she was under the assumption that it did everything for her.

Next, Ms. Attorney is overwhelmed by the fact that she has also not been properly trained in how to gather all the necessary information for preparing petitions, properly counseling her clients and how to filter out clients who do not qualify for bankruptcy and help them through debt counseling or some other form of assistance.  Without this basic knowledge, new bankruptcy attorneys are going to be in for a very rocky road ahead; especially since there is no software program that is going to do all of this for them.

What happens next is another nightmare.  After Ms. Attorney enters in all the income for John Q Public and his wife, John Q Public does not qualify for a Chapter 13.  In a situation like this some attorneys will try to still push the bankruptcy through by finding an income from another source or suggest the debtor get a part-time job so he or his wife can qualify to file a Chapter 13.

Or, if Ms. Attorney manages to get the bankruptcy petition filed by some other method, she will still risk extreme embarrassment at the 341 Meeting when she is in front of the client, creditors and the Trustee.  When the Trustee finds these issues and brings them to the table, many attorneys will simply stop accepting Chapter 13s or stop doing bankruptcy altogether rather than face this situation again.  This is sad; because the result was only caused from a lack of training and knowledge in building her practice.  Another old saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

LOGICAL POINTS TO CONSIDER

If you are a seasoned bankruptcy attorney, I urge you to pass this information on to new attorneys.  In doing so, you and I are helping to improve professionalism and positive growth within the bankruptcy field.  If you are a new attorney, I urge you to study the following logical points:

1.   If a bankruptcy software program existed that could do all the thinking for you, why would someone need to hire a bankruptcy attorney?  Why not just buy the software and call it a day?

2.   If the bankruptcy court allows an attorney to charge $1,000 or more for a Chapter 13, do you not think there must be more work involved?  Some attorneys think the software does the work for them; but remember that the court does not just grant a large sum like this to an attorney without good reason.

3.   If you were going to open a pizza shop, would it be a good idea to learn how to make pizza first?  If you are going to start a new bankruptcy practice, would it be a good idea then to learn about the process first?  The least a new attorney can do is login to the American Bankruptcy Institute and view the free training videos at:

http://www.uscourts.gov/video/bankruptcybasics/bankruptcyBasics.cfm

Although these videos were made for attorneys to place on their websites to inform their clients about bankruptcy, they are still excellent in helping new attorneys understand the basics.  I always tell my students to study the law from a legal perspective as well s the consumer perspective.  It provides you with a better balance of knowledge that will carry throughout the life of your law career.

ONE SOLUTION TO CONSIDER

The videos from the American Bankruptcy Institute will NOT show you how to gather information from your clients, prepare the petition or run your practice.  That education has never been taught to attorneys and either they learn the skill through trial and error or from an experienced paralegal.

As the author of this article, I would be more than happy to talk with any attorney who is considering getting involved in the bankruptcy field. You can email me at: victoriaring1958@gmail.com

I hope this information helps you.